Let's Talk Truth 
All Year Long
 Thank You John....
We are all going to miss you 
R.I.P....You did well and good

Locating Topic Material 

One of the other things you can do on this site is use the on site search engine to locate topic material. If I have anything posted about certain ideas, groups, news pieces or organizations etc. the search engine will locate the titles and pages where they can be found. You just type in some useful search term like “alternatives” or “The Matrix” or “Brave New World” etc and see what it finds for you. It usually takes a few minutes to do.


 On Stigma-
This one was sent to me as a creation by one of the "Less Than Thrilled" psychiatric survivours in Canada Clara Hughes he is NOT. I can also relate to much of what he is saying here. Margaret Trudeau I am Not.
The point is there are alway two sides to imperfect "help" and when one side is suppressed and invalidated we open ourselves up to dictatorships, and dictatorships abuse power as if it was their "right" to do so. 

The Collective Level

Psycho-Spiritual Experience and Generic Meaning

By Patricia Lefave....Monophrenic

How do does that translate into concrete reality on an individual level?

Well, all words have multiple meanings depending upon the context in which they are used. This is equally true for ALL people, not just those of us who have experienced altered states, for one reason or another. So I found the best context to be a generic one, to start with, that we can all use, and then we can see it as individuals from that point on.

The word used to describe the process of reproduction by means of fission is "schizogenesis." Isn't that interesting?

For if there was nothing BUT God, then the material used for creation must have BEEN God, him/her/itself. Schizogenesis- Big Bang- Fission...

Now if you think of the God-head as the nucleus of our Being, which was, is, and always will be, unchanged, and of creation as revolving (like a solar system ) around that nucleus, it makes it easier to understand your own role and identity. Right? What the rest of us are is as God's "Babies." (something I said into our collective "being" when I was personally fragmented. )

Though we are not equal to the God-head, we are all equal to each other. It is only when we doubt that, that trouble follows, for we cannot, in reality, be either more, or less, than our human brothers and sisters. To believe either of those poles, is, in reality, delusional.

I once heard an altered person say, (from our collective "Being"... "I am

one...Who am I?" (he was very confused about meaning at the time)

So I told him, "It's not "I" anymore..It's "we." The "I", became "we." So, "we" are "one" (connected together as one spirit) and "we" are "many." (separate and unique as individual identities.) This is how we are together AND apart at the same time, and it is only a fact and not a contradiction.

Though we can share information and ideas with each other, we cannot, and must not try to impose them, or to impose our will, on others. So set your personal boundaries and stand. The gift of life is your unique personal identity and THAT is what you get to define as an adult "child" of God- JUST your own. It will make it much easier to understand your own role and identity.

If you don't believe there IS a God, use something else; like quantum physics, or psychology, or parapsychology, or philosophy, or math, etc. as the concrete FRAMEWORK for understanding the same principle, but keep the same principle intact. It is the principle that matters; not the framework used to talk about it. The framework is secondary to the principle you use to anchor yourself to concrete reality and to your own identity.

Personally I am not limited to one view, as I see and hear the same truth in all of them which is simply expressed in a variety of ways. But if you need to use just one; do that. That is your right as an individual. Just don't needYOUR framework to be the only one that counts for others. This too is about setting boundaries. It is ALWAYS about boundaries.

True Psycho Social Spiritual Health..

...is the same for all.

It means we can all get to, and ultimately remain, in a place of stillness and peace, having Self Defined, Self Controlled (in both action AND restraint as necessary) and Self Directed. That is what self actualization is all about. The gift of life (or the really weird accident of life if you prefer...) is about having a personal and unique identity- Self creation with boundaries developed and kept intact that show that you KNOW that all others have the same right as you. As long as they also know that boundaries must exist between us, life works for ALL of us. When life works for all of us, we are, once again, "One" in Spirit, but changed, for NOW we can have REAL friends to play with.

When we finally complete our journey through creation- fission stops. When fission stops it means "the end of time." The end of time though does NOT mean the end of everything. It just means there is a permanent sphere within which lives all of creation. There, time will no longer be understood as something simply linear, but more like light is understood now, as particles and/or waves, depending upon your point of VIEW. Time is both linear and spherical, depending upon your point of view...that means we all actually live in BOTH time AND timelessness, physical and metaphysical. I am sure the day will come when people will wonder why we made such a big deal out of this, in a way similar to wondering how we could have believed that if we made it to the horizon, we would fall off the edge of the earth into an abyss! We are a childish group of spirit beings, that's for sure.

Time is ALREADY eternal on it's own level. Perhaps that is what the concept of heaven is about?? Eternal BEING?

The end of time can mean "stasis." "Stasis" can also be a synonym for stability.

So, what words MEAN depends in part, on HOW you hear them, and how you hear them, depends upon who you understand yourself to be....or not to be....that is the ANSWER, to the same question.

Stand solidly on the principle, the foundation stone, of mutual respect and equality, boundaries going in both direction at the same time, given and expected, as your starting point AND as your goal. If you do, everything in between the starting point and the end point, the Alpha and the Omega, (as it is also stated) will straighten itself out. It is simple but it is not easy, as it involves more of an undoing of long standing, collective error and some things will be very hard to face. Yet face them we must if we are to return together to our right minds on a collective level.

Though you cannot MAKE others treat you with respect, you CAN let them know that you expect them, as equals, to respect your personal boundaries and you can do that with WORDS.

Changing Disturbing Visions into Visions of Peace

When altered in consciousness myself, I was "the rebirthing mother." Now I use that "revelation," translated into concrete action, "back in time," here on the concrete level of my physical life, with my boundaries FULLY intact. In fact, I am even stronger, now, than I was B.C. (before cracking!) My website is part of my concrete action.

Each of you can do the same, from his or her own unique concrete perspective, using the same PRINCIPLE as your premise and goal. Together (ONE in spirit) we can all participate, as equals, in helping to "save the world." (another common theme) God knows the world really NEEDS saving, and so do we know it. What none of us can accomplish alone, we can do together, if connected to a nucleus of being that does not change.

Wheel of Life

If we think of all points of view like part of the Wheel of Life with all the paths we follow as the spokes in the wheel, we will recognize that we need all the spokes to move this wheel forward toward our destination. We will also realize that what really MATTERS most is not any one of the spokes, but rather that ALL of the spokes in the wheel lead to the HUB of the matter.

So USE your amazing experiences to reconnect to concrete reality, each one from his or her unique point of view. For this is how we, who WERE "one", which became "many," become "one" again...in a way that works well for ALL of God's "Babies."

The Spiritual "Family" grows up at Long Last. ..and Lasts Long...maybe even Everlasting. It is worth aiming for, and it also makes for a MUCH more enjoyable trip. I believe that the improved trip alone is worth the group effort.

Do you?


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On the Bell Let's Talk Campaign for 2015 on January 28th

This is going to go as part of my personal campaign pointing out the absurdities of the system, as a counterpoint/expansion to Bell Canada’s “Let’s Talk”Campaign promoted for January 28th. We could all use this as a means of PUBLICLY talking about the harm done by psychiatry and how the labelling itself creates the “stigma”.

Read full article in text above in the blog section of this page titled,

"Can You Supposedly "Normal" People Hear Your Own Confessions?

On January 28th Bell Canada Now Promotes a “Let's Talk” Campaign supposedly used to end “the Stigma” of “having” a mental illness. I Propose that We all Join in as those with another point of view to that of the happy consumer.

Does Having Someone fill a Role as an Active Listener Change Outcomes?

Do many of you wish that you could just find someone who would just listen to you and take you seriously? Does being diagnosed and labelled in ten to fifteen cost effective minutes remind you of your own experience?
Do you feel like you are not seen as real, or as human, as those who label you and those who accept your labelling as if it was indicative of who you are?
Do you feel largely invisible as a human being?
Do your drugs make you feel sick?
Are you one of those who finale FOUND someone who would listen?
How did, or would,  a listening ear change outcomes for you?
What do you need that you are not getting from today's Brave New Bio Psych? 

Getting Started on Talking Back- the Other Perspective

On Clara Hughes and the “Let's Talk Campaign” 

For those of you not in Canada who have never heard of this, here is a reference to what I am talking about here. 

Clara Hughes

The No One Must Be Blamed “Game”

Currently I have seen that at the first hint that the psychiatrized person even suggests that someone in their life is to blame for something which has had a negative impact on the psychiatrized person's life or well being, he or she most often gets the mental illness system auto response delivered like a knee jerk reaction to suggestion, without any connection, or any interest in even the possibility of wrong doing by those “others” who can never be blamed for anything. Most often heard seems to be “We (the imperial “we”) can't blame others.”

Not being “allowed” to blame[1] anyone else for anything, anytime or anyplace sure does make a great debate stopper, but is it a valid idea to promote and impose such “one size fits all” concepts to individual situations?
I have not found this helpful and in fact, I believe that in many cases it has just the opposite effect and does more to prevent resolution and enable abuse, while defending and protecting the abusers, than anything else.
If you think so too and would like to share your thoughts or personal experiences on this topic please do so.

[1]  The dictionary definition of “blame” is: “to hold accountable” which may not have anything at all to do with any action other than SAYING, “I hold you accountable for your own behaviour.”

Communication Problems: Words and Meaning


I believe that much of the problem with the system comes from splitting the “difference” in words and meaning. 


Words like; “God, set up, strangers talking about me, being watched, abused, threatened, mocked,” etc. ...all take on a meaning in psychiatry that does not apply in the same way in the world outside the parameters of psychiatric diagnostics. Psychiatry is its own little world apart from everyday reality.


That's a big part of the problem too. To say such things without a psychiatric label is very different than saying the same things with a psychiatric label, or even if it has just been suggested that you should HAVE a psychiatric label. This is the only profession that deals with life and living, with experience, perception and emotional reactions “as if” it could all be defined as absolutes, as abstract truth, in one size fits all terms. In reality, that is not how life is, and not how life works. If you are one with personal experience of this sort of relationship, consider talking about it publicly here so that those yet to BE psychiatrized can get a sense of what this reality can really be like and what that means to those of “us” who are somewhat less than delighted with bio-psych than are those who promote the system.

Metaphors for Experience

Whether we use metaphors deliberately and consciously, as ALL human beings do, to try to explain our experiences to psychiatrists and others in the system, or whether they come unbidden and uncontrolled from an altered state, the MAJORITY of psychiatrists consider them all to be essentially meaningless. Do you agree with that or not?

If they seemed to arise from within like a dream or a nightmare, while your eyes were open and taking in everything else in concrete reality as well, did these metaphors help you find meaning and understanding later on in your recovery? Mine did. Though at the time I found I could not either separate from them nor integrate them. Chaos prevailed for a time. It was VERY confusing to say the least, mirroring my actual experience in concrete reality which was being denied by all involved. They still do. I just don't care anymore.

If this describes something similar from your own experiences, what did your metaphors mean to you, consciously then, or not consciously until perhaps sometime afterwards?

Delusional Reversal of the Presumably 'Sane' Ones?




How many of you who have been psychiatrized for your reporting of personal experiences got to the point where you realized that your reality had been turned into what appeared to be the exact opposite of what it really was?
Is this a common experience and frequent sensing  of what goes on in dysfunctional groups and with psychiatry as well? If you have had an experience of this, how about sharing some of the concrete details here with those who are still struggling to make some sense of similar experiences?.


Let's Talk Back
This is the Forum for Psychiatric Survivours Who Want to Tell the Mental Illness System How They REALLY Feel about all the Help. Let's Talk Back to Those About the reality of the Reductionism and the labelling Process

Pat's Disclaimer: the posts of other participants on this public board do not necessarily express my own personal beliefs, experiences or opinions. I agree with some things expressed by others as they experienced it, with some ideas for change and not with some others. However, I do believe in the right to the honest expression of experiences with some simple limits, delivered in a non threatening manner. If we all offer our ideas and suggestions, others may find something they can use too for their own recovery and growing well being. I also believe that the best support can come from those who got all the way through their own experience and managed to come out the other side of it. We can't always see where we are heading, but we can see where we have been. Talking about it openly and honestly just may help BOTH the talker and the listener. So welcome to a place of mutual support with good boundaries part of the mutual goal. Maybe we can create a better way or relating and communicating by our own example. It is worth a try.