Let's Talk Truth 
All Year Long
 Thank You John....
We are all going to miss you 
R.I.P....You did well and good

Locating Topic Material 

One of the other things you can do on this site is use the on site search engine to locate topic material. If I have anything posted about certain ideas, groups, news pieces or organizations etc. the search engine will locate the titles and pages where they can be found. You just type in some useful search term like “alternatives” or “The Matrix” or “Brave New World” etc and see what it finds for you. It usually takes a few minutes to do.


 On Stigma-
This one was sent to me as a creation by one of the "Less Than Thrilled" psychiatric survivours in Canada Clara Hughes he is NOT. I can also relate to much of what he is saying here. Margaret Trudeau I am Not.
The point is there are alway two sides to imperfect "help" and when one side is suppressed and invalidated we open ourselves up to dictatorships, and dictatorships abuse power as if it was their "right" to do so. 

Try Thinking About it

By Patricia Lefave, Monophrenic

(who is "seeking your attention" on this matter)

...Instead of just accepting your "training" without question..

To all of you determined to "help those people"

You are "those people" and "those people" are YOU. It is only the circumstances that are slightly skewed or "different."

I am one of "those people" who does not want your current brand of "help."[1]

So I am Talking Back, just like a naughty child you will no doubt feel you must "correct." David Rosenthal, in the "Thud" experiment said of his own experience of psychiatric hospitalization, "I felt like I wasn't really there."

(I know the feeling...same here...it is surreal to watch and listen to others objectifying you according to their own, frequently delusional, needs and beliefs.)

Now, think about the "difference" one's definitions make when one imposes his or her beliefs on someone, as opposed to assuming the other is an equal human being and not either "more" or "less." It's all in the difference the definitions make.

Definition one: It must be awful to have a disease that makes you feel like you aren't really there.

Definition two: (first person experience instead of third person assessment of him or her)

It is awful to be defined as a disease- to have your life taken over by others, and your experiences, perceptions, and your reactions all invalidated and treated as irrelevant. It makes you feel like, as far as those around you are concerned, you don't really even exist as a person.

Yet both of these points of view can be defined by saying, "I felt like I wasn't really there."

It is the PREMISE of belief to which the statement is attached that supplies it with the meaning.

When one individual or group has the legal, concrete POWER to IMPOSE its choice of meaning on another individual or group, and to do so without question or any legal provision, or power, for the one being defined to oppose that definition, it gets very surreal and often stunninglysenseless as an experience.

That is about political POWER and control. It is not about real "diseases" and it is anything BUT "medical," the definition currently being used as the basis, or definition, of reality itself.

The most common and consistent effects of defining everything in life as a medical problem requiring "treatment" is the blaming of victims of abuse, the excusing of aggressors, especially those with "hidden" agendas, and the pathologizing of virtually everything else in life from confusion to daydreaming, to grief, to relationship problems, to trauma, to the effects of wars, bullying and even who you might have made out with last and how you performed when you did it (or did not do it) as "mental Illness"; a real illness "just like diabetes."

There is an older terminology we used to use for this sort of thing though it does not sound quite so scientific.

We called it "a crock of shit."

Now this, of course, is just my own opinion based on experience. I am expressing this opinion in a country that claims freedom of speech to be a human right. I am expressing it publicly, though told not to do so, because I am afraid it will soon be reframed as a "symptom" of my mental illness, because reframing it that way, will empower those who don't like my opinion, to have me picked up by the police, for my own good, to be 'treated', against my will if necessary, for the illness I have which is causing me to have no insight into my own condition, which is what will be used to justify doing it to me. (FOR me)

[1] Be sure to find the fault in me for SAYING that. That is how the status quo is sure to be maintained.


Would you like to be notified when new forum topics or posts are made?
On the Bell Let's Talk Campaign for 2015 on January 28th

This is going to go as part of my personal campaign pointing out the absurdities of the system, as a counterpoint/expansion to Bell Canada’s “Let’s Talk”Campaign promoted for January 28th. We could all use this as a means of PUBLICLY talking about the harm done by psychiatry and how the labelling itself creates the “stigma”.

Read full article in text above in the blog section of this page titled,

"Can You Supposedly "Normal" People Hear Your Own Confessions?

On January 28th Bell Canada Now Promotes a “Let's Talk” Campaign supposedly used to end “the Stigma” of “having” a mental illness. I Propose that We all Join in as those with another point of view to that of the happy consumer.

Does Having Someone fill a Role as an Active Listener Change Outcomes?

Do many of you wish that you could just find someone who would just listen to you and take you seriously? Does being diagnosed and labelled in ten to fifteen cost effective minutes remind you of your own experience?
Do you feel like you are not seen as real, or as human, as those who label you and those who accept your labelling as if it was indicative of who you are?
Do you feel largely invisible as a human being?
Do your drugs make you feel sick?
Are you one of those who finale FOUND someone who would listen?
How did, or would,  a listening ear change outcomes for you?
What do you need that you are not getting from today's Brave New Bio Psych? 

Getting Started on Talking Back- the Other Perspective

On Clara Hughes and the “Let's Talk Campaign” 

For those of you not in Canada who have never heard of this, here is a reference to what I am talking about here. 

Clara Hughes

The No One Must Be Blamed “Game”

Currently I have seen that at the first hint that the psychiatrized person even suggests that someone in their life is to blame for something which has had a negative impact on the psychiatrized person's life or well being, he or she most often gets the mental illness system auto response delivered like a knee jerk reaction to suggestion, without any connection, or any interest in even the possibility of wrong doing by those “others” who can never be blamed for anything. Most often heard seems to be “We (the imperial “we”) can't blame others.”

Not being “allowed” to blame[1] anyone else for anything, anytime or anyplace sure does make a great debate stopper, but is it a valid idea to promote and impose such “one size fits all” concepts to individual situations?
I have not found this helpful and in fact, I believe that in many cases it has just the opposite effect and does more to prevent resolution and enable abuse, while defending and protecting the abusers, than anything else.
If you think so too and would like to share your thoughts or personal experiences on this topic please do so.

[1]  The dictionary definition of “blame” is: “to hold accountable” which may not have anything at all to do with any action other than SAYING, “I hold you accountable for your own behaviour.”

Communication Problems: Words and Meaning


I believe that much of the problem with the system comes from splitting the “difference” in words and meaning. 


Words like; “God, set up, strangers talking about me, being watched, abused, threatened, mocked,” etc. ...all take on a meaning in psychiatry that does not apply in the same way in the world outside the parameters of psychiatric diagnostics. Psychiatry is its own little world apart from everyday reality.


That's a big part of the problem too. To say such things without a psychiatric label is very different than saying the same things with a psychiatric label, or even if it has just been suggested that you should HAVE a psychiatric label. This is the only profession that deals with life and living, with experience, perception and emotional reactions “as if” it could all be defined as absolutes, as abstract truth, in one size fits all terms. In reality, that is not how life is, and not how life works. If you are one with personal experience of this sort of relationship, consider talking about it publicly here so that those yet to BE psychiatrized can get a sense of what this reality can really be like and what that means to those of “us” who are somewhat less than delighted with bio-psych than are those who promote the system.

Metaphors for Experience

Whether we use metaphors deliberately and consciously, as ALL human beings do, to try to explain our experiences to psychiatrists and others in the system, or whether they come unbidden and uncontrolled from an altered state, the MAJORITY of psychiatrists consider them all to be essentially meaningless. Do you agree with that or not?

If they seemed to arise from within like a dream or a nightmare, while your eyes were open and taking in everything else in concrete reality as well, did these metaphors help you find meaning and understanding later on in your recovery? Mine did. Though at the time I found I could not either separate from them nor integrate them. Chaos prevailed for a time. It was VERY confusing to say the least, mirroring my actual experience in concrete reality which was being denied by all involved. They still do. I just don't care anymore.

If this describes something similar from your own experiences, what did your metaphors mean to you, consciously then, or not consciously until perhaps sometime afterwards?

Delusional Reversal of the Presumably 'Sane' Ones?




How many of you who have been psychiatrized for your reporting of personal experiences got to the point where you realized that your reality had been turned into what appeared to be the exact opposite of what it really was?
Is this a common experience and frequent sensing  of what goes on in dysfunctional groups and with psychiatry as well? If you have had an experience of this, how about sharing some of the concrete details here with those who are still struggling to make some sense of similar experiences?.


Let's Talk Back
This is the Forum for Psychiatric Survivours Who Want to Tell the Mental Illness System How They REALLY Feel about all the Help. Let's Talk Back to Those About the reality of the Reductionism and the labelling Process

Pat's Disclaimer: the posts of other participants on this public board do not necessarily express my own personal beliefs, experiences or opinions. I agree with some things expressed by others as they experienced it, with some ideas for change and not with some others. However, I do believe in the right to the honest expression of experiences with some simple limits, delivered in a non threatening manner. If we all offer our ideas and suggestions, others may find something they can use too for their own recovery and growing well being. I also believe that the best support can come from those who got all the way through their own experience and managed to come out the other side of it. We can't always see where we are heading, but we can see where we have been. Talking about it openly and honestly just may help BOTH the talker and the listener. So welcome to a place of mutual support with good boundaries part of the mutual goal. Maybe we can create a better way or relating and communicating by our own example. It is worth a try.